Re: [AD] [custom] Dark Pawns

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kavir — Feb 12, 1999 19:00 UTC

Matthew Schuyler Peck wrote:
›
▶

[email redacted] wrote:
(100 lines)
›
› [email redacted] wrote:
›
›› In article [email redacted]
››   Richard Woolcock
 wrote:
››› [email redacted] wrote:
››››
›››
››› [snip]
›››
›››› Dark Pawns is a completely original Dark Fantasy Multi User
›››
››› So why does it say "Based on CircleMUD 3.0, created by Jeremy Elson"
››› on the login screen?
››
›› It says that because I would like to give Jeremy Elson credit because I
›› and the developers before me used his Circle mud 3.0 pl11 code as a model
›› in enhancing our now almost six year old Diku code.  In the course of your
›› reply, you seem to indicate that I personally am an unethical individual
›› because you feel that I took stock circle, modified it, and now claim it
›› as my own 100%.  This is simply not true.
››
›››
›››› Environment that has been constantly played and developed for
›››› over five years.
›››
››› I didn't realise Circlemud 3.0 patch 11 was that old.  Being curious,
››› I downloaded a copy of Circlemud 3.0 patch 11 (which is the version
››› your helpfiles say you are using) and noticed that the files were
››› date-stamped 1996.  Of course, someone could have touched them since
››› the release date, so I did a grep for "96" and came up with the
››› following:
›››
››› interpreter.c:     * re-add the code to cut off duplicates when a player
›› quits.
›››  JE 6 Feb 96
››› modify.c:* for CircleMUD.  All functions below are his.  --JE 8 Mar 96
››› random.c: * supported on the target system.  -JE 2/3/96
››› spell_parser.c: * or skill, look in class.c.  -JE 5 Feb 1996
››› sysdep.h: * 20 Mar 96: My quest is not yet over.  These definitions still
›› cause
›››
››
›› Again, the circle code was only used as a model to enhance the existing
›› diku code. If a musical artist borrows a bass line from another artist
›› for his song, it is only right that the first artist is given credit.
›› HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that the song is owned by the first artist, and
›› because credit is given it doesn't constitute intellectual property theft.
››
›››› We believe that Dark Pawns offers one of the
›››› most unique gaming environments on the Internet.
›››
››› Forgive me if I show a little hesitation to believe you at this point.
›››
››
›› Understandable, I hope this message clears things up for you a bit.
››
››››     We have just released Dark Pawns version 2.2, the biggest source
››››     update in our five year history.
›››
››› You mean "almost three year history".
›››
››
›› Almost six year history, actually. But we've been through this.
››
››› While we're on the topic of honesty, I'd also like to draw your attention
››› to the license agreement, as you've broken every single request listed in
››› the second section (about giving credit) - except for two parts which I
››› cannot prove (distributing the doc files with your code and keeping the
››› headers intact).  Specifically, you've broken the following rules:
›››
››› -- The text in the 'credits' file distributed with CircleMUD must be
›››    preserved.  You may add your own credits to the file, but the existing
›››    text must not be removed, abridged, truncated, or changed in any way.
›››    This file must be displayed when the 'credits' command is used from
›››    within the MUD.
›››
››› You've replaced it with your own.
›››
››› -- The "CIRCLEMUD" help entry must be maintained intact and unchanged, and
›››    displayed in its entirety when the 'help circlemud' command is used.
›››
››› You've replaced it with your own.
›››
››› -- The login sequence must contain the names of the DikuMUD and CircleMUD
›››    creators.  The 'login sequence' is defined as the text seen by players
›››    between the time they connect to the MUD and when they start to play
›››    the game itself.
›››
››› You don't credit the Diku team (which is also against the third section of
››› the Circle license: you must comply with the DikuMUD license).
›››
››› -- Claims that any of the above requirements are inapplicable to a particular
›››    MUD for reasons such as "our MUD is totally rewritten" or similar are
›››    completely invalid.  If you can write a MUD completely from scratch then
›››    you are encouraged to do so by all means, but use of any part of the
›››    CircleMUD or DikuMUD source code requires that their respective licenses
›››    be followed, including the crediting requirements.
›››
››› That speaks for itself.  Did you read the part where Jeremy Elson wrote:
›››
›››    A great deal of work went into the creation of CircleMUD, and it was given
›››    to you completely free of charge; claiming that you wrote the MUD yourself
›››    is a slap in the face to everyone who worked to bring you a high quality
›››    product while asking for nothing but credit for their work in return.
›››
››› You should have done.
›››
›››    The first time you try to compile Circle, you will be asked to read the
›››    CircleMUD license.  Please read it!
›››
››
›› Now we are speaking strictly of personal opinion here, so don't get hot, this
›› is just how I feel:  I feel that I am not bound by the circlemud licence
›› because my mud is not derived from circle directly.  I am extremely grateful
›› to Jeremy for releasing the code to circle, which has helped myself and Dark
›› Pawns greatly, there is no dispute about that, but I would not say that the
›› mud wasn't custom unless it wasn't.  The mud has been developed by talented
›› people for almost six years, I myself being fortunate enough to develop it
›› for the last three, and I have put a considerable amount of time and effort
›› into making it the most unique ud that I could.
››
››› I assume you realise that because of people like you, people like me are
››› not willing to release their source code?
››
›› I understand that there are people like that, and I'd like you to understand
›› that I'm not one of them. I particularly understand that you have been burned
›› before, with the release of your stolen GodWars source and are no doubt still
›› bitter about it, which I agree with wholeheartedly. I'm just trying to say
›› that you don't have all the facts, and you are attacking the wrong person. I
›› do my best to give everyone the credit they deserve, and you are right,
›› Jeremy Elson does deserve his credit, which he gets in my opening screen and
›› in the credits file.
››
›› I hope I cleared things up for you.
››
›› Rich
›
› Stick it to him, Rich. I'm tired of snooty, soap-box types who leap on every
› opportunity to make world-class asses of themselves. Three cheers for Rich!

So the fact that he doesn't credit the authors of his codebase doesn't
bother you, then?  Don't you think we have enough Vryce's already?

› Matthew Schuyler Peck

Do you mind if I just call you "Kressilac"?

KaVir.

kerv666 — Feb 13, 1999 19:00 UTC

Maybe one of the Vryce/Kressilac's of the world could explain this to me - why
the hell is it SOOOOO evil and degrading to just give the fookin Diku (and/or
Circle) teams credit?  I mean, if you set there building your code while
studying circle, why not credit them?  and if it's "diku-feeling" or actualt
Diku, why does it matter?  would it hurt that much to leave the credits how
they should be?

Kerv

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It's all fun and games till someone pokes an eye out -
then it's still fun and games, you just can't see.
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adam — Feb 13, 1999 19:00 UTC

Kerv666  wrote:
›
▶

Maybe one of the Vryce/Kressilac's of the world could explain this to me - why
(6 lines)
› Maybe one of the Vryce/Kressilac's of the world could explain this to me - why
› the hell is it SOOOOO evil and degrading to just give the fookin Diku (and/or
› Circle) teams credit?  I mean, if you set there building your code while
› studying circle, why not credit them?  and if it's "diku-feeling" or actualt
› Diku, why does it matter?  would it hurt that much to leave the credits how
› they should be?

Might as well ask why people lie, cheat, and steal.  If you're looking for
someone to defend stealing other people's code, you're wasting your time.

For some weird reason, folks who change 5 lines of C code believe that they
have a "highly customized" version of something which is totally different
from the original, and that they can completely ignore the original's
copyright notices.

Go figure.

--Adam
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