--- title: "To pk or not topk!?" description: "The long-running argument about player killing: whether the restrictions ruined it, and why the staff say they cannot police it." kind: "forum-thread" dateLabel: "May 24-25, 2004" board: "General Discussion" postCount: 9 completeness: "complete" sourceSite: "dp-players.com" sourceUrl: "http://www.dp-players.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=627" captureUrl: "https://web.archive.org/web/20040724083546/http://www.dp-players.com:80/forum/viewtopic.php?p=627&" recoveredAt: "2026-09-01T00:00:00.000Z" textKind: "verbatim" canonical: "https://darkpawns.labz0rz.com/archive/topic-t83/" --- ## In this conversation | Name | Role | Posts | | --- | --- | --- | | Morpheus | dark pawn | 2 | | Sinko | knight | 3 | | Aidan | site administrator | 2 | | Doragar | immortal | 2 | *Transcript note: generated from the raw phpBB capture `dp-players-thread-p627-20040724083546.html`. Author sidebars, profile links and private-message links are omitted.* ### Morpheus — Mon May 24, 2004 12:03 am i know i love pk/pthief. *boxing* ### Sinko — Mon May 24, 2004 1:36 am I really wish your sig was donuts instead of boxing. *\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_*\ *banana* ### Aidan — Mon May 24, 2004 2:07 am I enjoy it to a certain extent... as long as you can get your equipment back and you don't lose an item, it's all good. pking is a great way to teach someone a lesson, but sometimes it starts "wars" - especially when clans are involved. as far as the current gameplay in this area goes however, it's lacking certain vital aspects. there are too many sneaky ways to hide from one another is an example of this. but if I had to choose between player vs. player or player vs. mob, in the mud's current state I'd choose pvp without a doubt. PS - 100th post, woot *I did it like this*\ *I did it like that*\ *I did it with a wiffle ball bat* ### Doragar — Mon May 24, 2004 4:47 am > **Aidan, earlier in this thread:** > > I enjoy it to a certain extent... as long as you can get your equipment back and you don't lose an item, it's all good. pking is a great way to teach someone a lesson, but sometimes it starts "wars" - especially when clans are involved. I'm sure the debate on this topic is never going to stop, and everyone has their opinion on the matter. I believe PK has become as restrictive as it is because of these points - people corpse loot items, or it becomes a 10v10 grudge match which spans months. I'd have to look for it, but I'm sure DP is described as "limited" PK which means it's available, but it's not the focus of the mud - I'm sure there's a ton of dedicated PvP muds out there in which you can satisfy your needs for revenge. > **Aidan, earlier in this thread:** > > as far as the current gameplay in this area goes however, it's lacking certain vital aspects. there are too many sneaky ways to hide from one another is an example of this. This is another reason PK has become restrictive. If everyone who participated in PvP did so of their own free will, or wasn't victimised everytime they logged in, perhaps the whole system would work as advertised. Unfortunately this isn't the case, with numerous people in the past circumventing rules in underhanded ways. This raises another topic - how do you police it, or do you in fact police it at all? By the definition of the mud, limited PK means just that - it's limited. If it's limited, the code either needs to restrict certain things or someone needs to monitor and punish offenders. The whole issue comes down to not being handled well, both by players and myself on a few occasions - we either log everything so we can come to the truth behind "XYZ took my stuff and junked it" or we resort to "he did this...no I didn't, I did this..." Perhaps altering the question slightly to see what sort of results you get - if the PK system was altered to an opt-in basis (ie. you elect to play PvP) and restrictions are put in place to hopefully prevent corpse looting (but everything else is fair game), would you use it? ### Sinko — Mon May 24, 2004 11:44 am Well the current policy is ridiculous. I remember a time when the mud actually had checks and balances and there was an incentive not to be a newb pthief. The current system punishes those outlaws who also enjoy pvm, but doesnt really punish those who are strictly pissed off with the game and want to harass someone. I don't time to post what I want to see, but the current mud has limited pvp. The old DP had loose restrictions, at best. There were less problems and more fun. ### Aidan — Mon May 24, 2004 1:50 pm > **Doragar wrote:** > > > **Aidan wrote:** > > > > I enjoy it to a certain extent... as long as you can get your equipment back and you don't lose an item, it's all good. pking is a great way to teach someone a lesson, but sometimes it starts "wars" - especially when clans are involved. > > ... I'd have to look for it, but I'm sure DP is described as "limited" PK which means it's available, but it's not the focus of the mud - I'm sure there's a ton of dedicated PvP muds out there in which you can satisfy your needs for revenge. sometimes it's not all about revenge, but I see what you're saying. and agree with pking or not, some people DESERVE to die \[Twisted Evil\] > **Doragar wrote:** > > > **Aidan wrote:** > > > > as far as the current gameplay in this area goes however, it's lacking certain vital aspects. there are too many sneaky ways to hide from one another is an example of this. > > This raises another topic - how do you police it, or do you in fact police it at all? By the definition of the mud, limited PK means just that - it's limited.\ > Perhaps altering the question slightly to see what sort of results you get - if the PK system was altered to an opt-in basis (ie. you elect to play PvP) and restrictions are put in place to hopefully prevent corpse looting (but everything else is fair game), would you use it? well, it's either limited pk or it's not - and right now, it's sort of anarchy on the mud. no punishment is inflicted for utter morons (hyperion was an example of that - who is still playing to this day). so rather than take the time of trying to police and micromanage players - where you won't always be fair, regardless - an op-in/out pk system would rock. of course you'd have to be able to switch back and forth, in a RP context... like joining an evil cult that's hunted by all cities or something, I dunno. *I did it like this*\ *I did it like that*\ *I did it with a wiffle ball bat* ### Morpheus — Mon May 24, 2004 2:32 pm dark pawns wouldn't be dark pawns without pvp. it adds a whole level of playing to the game(one in which i enjoy).\ i have to agree with the fact that relentless pk of someone everytime they log in is gay. fun pk to me is what tanis and myself have been going through the past few days. he attacks me in temple so i kill him once. even steven. he attacks me agian ill kill em agian but thats the extent of it. *boxing* ### Sinko — Mon May 24, 2004 3:09 pm Part of the reason we have over-inflated equipment is because there is a total absense of a logical pvp system. ### Doragar — Tue May 25, 2004 7:22 am > **Aidan, earlier in this thread:** > > so rather than take the time of trying to police and micromanage players - where you won't always be fair, regardless This is essentially why I believe the "utter morons" as you put it have been free to do as they please. We don't have the time to sit and micromanage and unless someone complains about it, we don't even realise it's happening. Of course, then it becomes the circular argument of "he killed me...yes, but only after he attacked me...I only did that because you stole from me...blah blah blah". Hence the need to change to a system that can function by itself with minimal to no staff involvement. > **Aidan, earlier in this thread:** > > of course you'd have to be able to switch back and forth, in a RP context... like joining an evil cult that's hunted by all cities or something, I dunno. Yes, you can decide to follow the path of the straight and narrow and leave your PvP life behind...of course, don't expect to be able to kill someone and 3 seconds later, repent all of your sins and be forgiven. \[Twisted Evil\] > **Sinko, earlier in this thread:** > > Part of the reason we have over-inflated equipment is because there is a total absense of a logical pvp system. I'm not 100% sure where you're going with this - are you suggesting that if we allowed corpse looting then people wouldn't have over-inflated eq? Wouldn't that just then lead to a single individual (or small PK group) controlling it all?